Rosacea : View topic - Grape Seed, Pycnogenol, ALA, Glisodin

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Grape Seed, Pycnogenol, ALA, Glisodin

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TheMediumDog
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Location: UK

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:41 am Post subject:

Quote:

Aren't you still taking the antibiotics? If you are still getting a # of p&p's perhaps they are becoming ineffective for you and you should try another? Just a thought. I am so tempted to go back on them. The p&p's are driving me nuts also.

I know this is a rather belated (and pointless) response, but it has been playing on my mind a little.

I think the reason I feel this is not the case is because, in rosacea, it is the anti-inflammatory effects of the tetracyclines that is utilized rather than the anti-microbial effects. No? That's why doxycycline was developed - getting the anti-inflammatory benefits, without the useless and possibly harmful (on other parts of your body) effects of an antibiotic/anti-microbial.

So:

Quote:

Tetracyclines are known to down-regulate the production of proinflammatory cytokines such as IL-1 and TNF-alpha.[5] They also inhibit neutrophil chemotaxis and the production of nitric oxide, reactive oxygen species, and matrix metalloproteinases (MMP).[6,7] This ability of tetracyclines to modulate the inflammatory response pathway, reducing the inflammatory response, is believed to be the rationale for its effectiveness in treating rosacea.[5]

And

Quote:

Although doxycycline has been shown to be highly effective, perhaps its major contribution is that dosage at 20mg results in sub-antimicrobial blood levels. Several studies have reported no effect on antibiotic susceptibility patterns in up to 18 months of continuous therapy and in 9 months post-treatment.[12-14]

The decreasing effectiveness of antibiotics over time is due to the microbes evolving a resistant strain, isn't it? So for example, that's why you shouldn't stop in the middle of a course - you're just begging for bacteria to breed children that can cope with the antibiotics, giving them breathing space in which to do so.

If it were acne, it would be a different matter, as there we have a significant bacterial component. I think that maybe, when one reads of the possibility of the decreased effectiveness over time of the tetracyclines, reference is implicitly being made to this.

I don't know for sure, but I don't think the anti-inflammatory effect can decrease over time, at least not for anything like analogous reasons.

On another note, I'm pretty much certain now that my trace mineral supplementation was interfering with the minocycline, as I've seen a quite marked and extended increase in p&p's, and there's really no other good candidate as a cause.
So this certainly does show the dangers of blind supplementation.
Part of me feels, though, that I've gained something through experimenting and observing an effect (even if it is my worst nightmare).

melissawohl
Forum Moderator

Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Location: new york

Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:01 am Post subject:

Alex, When were you taking the mineral supplementation? If you were leaving at least 2 hours or more b/w taking the minocycline and the supplements that might help not interfere with the action of the mino. Also, weren't you on a larger dose of mino and not just an anti-inflammatory dose? Oracea (40 mg of doxy) is truly anti-inflammatory but the dose you were on of mino is anti-microbial. Not sure what that means regarding your results though. You do bring up some good points and I wonder if that's true. That the anti-inflammatory action does not decrease over time. I don't know if that's true and probably the doctors can only hypothesize but since it has only been studied in people for 9 months (of taking Oracea) there is no hard evidence one way or another. Good luck Alex! I always love reading your hypothesizing. One day the people here are going to come up with the cure! Best wishes, Melissa

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