Home - Topic contents - Reply to this topic or join the forum

Red Light Clinical Trial at Hammersmith Hospital
Author Message
clsykes00



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject:  
Peter wrote:
clsykes00 wrote:
To conduct this study properly will be a challenge in my opinion. The results of red light, from my reading, usually begin to show signs months after starting the therapy (call it 6 months which seems to be a mode of personal accounts from my readings) and peak call it in 2 years (taking Peter's estimates from his own experience). The difficulty will be two fold given the length of time for results and reaching peak results: 1) maintaining a meaninful control group that is willing to endure the pain of not experimenting with other forms of therapy, having to suffer for 6 months to 2 years while their rosacea progressions or maintains at its uncomfortable levels and 2) keeping the group using red light therapy from experimenting with other therapies (e.g. new diets that may alter someone's rosacea flushes, etc.) while using red light to ensure that red light is indeed the contributor to the results seen. As for me, I would not be patient enough to participate in either group, locking myself to one therapy over the course of a long period for the sake of scientific data. I think that is human nature in today's society.


Hello Trey

With all due respect I find your post somewhat negative. We should be grateful that someone is prepared to arrange a trial which could ultimately help perhaps other rosacea sufferers who are looking for the right treatment to suit them. Like any trial I am sure it will be a challenge but I have every faith in Tony's ability to conduct something which will prove one way or the other whether or not red light is a viable treatment option and I cannot see too many differences between this and the blue / red light trial he was involved in previously which demonstrated the benefits of those light frequencies for treating acne.

Actually I started to see that red light was helping me after only 3 to 4 weeks and was encouraged by Tony to carry on using the lamp. Sure I reckoned that peak healing time for me was around 2 years but that does not necessarily mean that a trial would need to take that length of time if positive results were emerging far earlier. I do not know the exact criteria and format of the trial other than he is using an LED lamp available at Hammersmith and he has the volunteers ready and waiting. At this stage I doubt if we will hear much before the end of this year but if people are interested I will post more information about the trial that I can find out about.

At the end of the day the red light technology is here and readily available for anybody with rosacea to try if they so wish. I think you will agree this is a far better situation then the hyped up drugs and topical products we have been bombarded with for the last year plus, which either fail to work or just never appear.

Regards

Peter


Peter,
You may interpret my post as negative, however, I was only describing the challenge in doing such a study and the potential limitations behind it.

Maybe the reason you find it negative is because you yourself understand these limitations.

I did not however say that I was ungrateful or grateful for the proposed study. That was merely you twisting my thoughts through your own conjecture, something I find in my opinion in many of your responses back to me.

Best,
Trey
Peter



Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject:  
Hello Trey

Well I still find your post negative but then we are both entitled to our opinions.
I think I can work out what you are insinuating from your reply and nothing could be further from the truth. At least I say it as it is and I am forthright, which is not everyone's style.

Remarks from you like "It is clear to me that both Rick and Peter for the most part become active only when Nase's name is mentioned. Curious" taken from another thread do not win you any respect from me. Why not have the courage to say what you really mean rather than hide behind the word "curious".

Anyway this thread is about the red light clinical trial and I for one intend to be optimistic that it will prove it's benefits to rosacea sufferers and hopefully open up the way for a new recognised method of treatment. Let's wait and see what the future brings, shall we?

Best wishes

Peter
IowaDavid



Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Location: Iowa, U.S.
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:19 am    Post subject:  
clsykes00 wrote:
To conduct this study properly will be a challenge in my opinion. The results of red light, from my reading, usually begin to show signs months after starting the therapy (call it 6 months which seems to be a mode of personal accounts from my readings) and peak call it in 2 years (taking Peter's estimates from his own experience). The difficulty will be two fold given the length of time for results and reaching peak results: 1) maintaining a meaninful control group that is willing to endure the pain of not experimenting with other forms of therapy, having to suffer for 6 months to 2 years while their rosacea progressions or maintains at its uncomfortable levels and 2) keeping the group using red light therapy from experimenting with other therapies (e.g. new diets that may alter someone's rosacea flushes, etc.) while using red light to ensure that red light is indeed the contributor to the results seen. As for me, I would not be patient enough to participate in either group, locking myself to one therapy over the course of a long period for the sake of scientific data. I think that is human nature in today's society.



If you were to try red light therapy, you might understand that one tends to notice a "calming" of the face immediately after a treatment session. After several weeks, you would, hopefully, begin to notice a higher tolerance to your known triggers.

Doing a double-blind study with red light is an admirable goal, but, one could use your counterarguments for any treatment modality given the unpredictable nature of rosacea.

It may be that we learn from others' experiences and we don't need a strict scientific study to encourage us to try a given treatment. Thermal laser treatments are horribly unpredictable, but, I still get thermal laser treatments because I have seen some benefits from them that other treatment modalities cannot match. I don't think we'll find any treatment modality that is 100% guaranteed. I don't know of any disorder/disease that has a silver bullet treatment, though.
_________________
28 year-old male
Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
20 + laser treatments.
Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisture, currently not using antibiotics. Using homemade red light LED array. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
Tioh2001



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Location: Toronto (Canada)
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject:  
Peter,

This is really great news....especially for the people who need a "scientific study".

I'm glad I didn't wait for red light to be proven and decided to try it based on "anectotal" reports. I've just past the 7 month mark of using red light. I'm not sure if I've gotten any more improvement since my last report, but I'm definitely maintaining the decrease in flushing I've had since the 3.5 month mark (and maintained the anti-aging benefits).

My skin is so improved these days and red light is a major factor in this.

Heather
redhotoz
Site Admin


Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject:  
That's really encouraging to hear Heather. Thank you for the up-date. I know it's helping me in this early stage and I look forward to the long tern benefits. Yeee haa! Very Happy

Jen
_________________
Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment.
Peter



Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:54 pm    Post subject:  
Tioh2001 wrote:
Peter,

This is really great news....especially for the people who need a "scientific study".

I'm glad I didn't wait for red light to be proven and decided to try it based on "anectotal" reports. I've just past the 7 month mark of using red light. I'm not sure if I've gotten any more improvement since my last report, but I'm definitely maintaining the decrease in flushing I've had since the 3.5 month mark (and maintained the anti-aging benefits).

My skin is so improved these days and red light is a major factor in this.

Heather


Hello Heather

Well I have waited 8 years for a clinical trial to take place so having to wait a bit longer isn't the end of the world I suppose. At this stage if he isn't going to start until the Autumn I would have thought it's unlikely that I will get much feedback until the beginning of next year although I will keep my ear to the ground. Hopefully the next time I post it will be to put up some encouraging news on the results.

I am glad you are maintaining your improvement and it's difficult to judge how much more you will get but you might find after 2 years that you have peaked and thereafter every time you use the lamp it becomes maintenance session. I did take Clonidine for several years and applied a topical antibiotic but for me incorporating red light in my regime is the main reason why my skin looks rosacea free. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Best wishes

Peter
Twickle Purple



Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Location: Changing servers
Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:43 pm    Post subject:  
I want to read about the Red Light Trials.
_________________
I'm changing servers, links will be active again soon.
Coyne



Joined: 12 May 2006
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:04 am    Post subject:  
Twickle Purple wrote:
I want to read about the Red Light Trials.


Seconded. I also vote for a special 'outside' thread. That way when arguments become personal and off topic they can be taken 'outside'. It would just make it simpler to research a particular topic without having to trawl through off topic rhetoric.

Yes I know people have differences .etc but I don't really care about them I selfishly want to read about Rosacea. Topical debates are interesting but sometimes they can get heated and an 'outside' thread would be a good place for people to hammer out these differences. That way if people want to keep up with an argument they can read it there. But more importantly it would make threads easier to read and find the information you want.

Peace Cool

James
clsykes00



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject:  
Coyne wrote:
Twickle Purple wrote:
I want to read about the Red Light Trials.


Seconded. I also vote for a special 'outside' thread. That way when arguments become personal and off topic they can be taken 'outside'. It would just make it simpler to research a particular topic without having to trawl through off topic rhetoric.

Yes I know people have differences .etc but I don't really care about them I selfishly want to read about Rosacea. Topical debates are interesting but sometimes they can get heated and an 'outside' thread would be a good place for people to hammer out these differences. That way if people want to keep up with an argument they can read it there. But more importantly it would make threads easier to read and find the information you want.

Peace 8)

James


Agreed. I simply point out a difficulty in the conducting the trial, and I get ripped for it on a personal basis. I look forward to the trial, despite its difficulty.

Best,
Trey
clsykes00



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject:  
IowaDavid wrote:
If you were to try red light therapy, you might understand that one tends to notice a "calming" of the face immediately after a treatment session. After several weeks, you would, hopefully, begin to notice a higher tolerance to your known triggers.


Iowa,
I only took the information from people who have tried RLT and have reported on it. Any refutes with the time required should be taken up with them. Search this site to find the quotes yourself.

On another note, why have you choosen to build your own RLT product when other third party products exist on the market that go through an ISO certified manufacturing process and have been through testing equipment and procedures that require equipment and processes often difficult economically and operationally for an individual?

Thanks in advance,
Trey
IowaDavid



Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Location: Iowa, U.S.
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject:  
If you would take the time to look at red light therapy, you would see that monochromatic red light is monochromatic red light. Safety isn't an issue, really. Have you read my posts on the energy level we're looking at?
I thought I could--and I did--build a better unit for myself than anything in the price range for what the materials cost. LEDs were used because they're monochromatic, draw very little power, and last a very long time.
As for the quotes, it really does matter who was saying what. You've got to look at the source and use your best judgment. Sorry, I'm going to go with over a year of daily, anecdotal personal experience than the words of disingenuous posters with ulterior motives.

David

clsykes00 wrote:
IowaDavid wrote:
If you were to try red light therapy, you might understand that one tends to notice a "calming" of the face immediately after a treatment session. After several weeks, you would, hopefully, begin to notice a higher tolerance to your known triggers.


Iowa,
I only took the information from people who have tried RLT and have reported on it. Any refutes with the time required should be taken up with them. Search this site to find the quotes yourself.

On another note, why have you choosen to build your own RLT product when other third party products exist on the market that go through an ISO certified manufacturing process and have been through testing equipment and procedures that require equipment and processes often difficult economically and operationally for an individual?

Thanks in advance,
Trey

_________________
28 year-old male
Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
20 + laser treatments.
Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisture, currently not using antibiotics. Using homemade red light LED array. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
Steve95301



Joined: 23 Jul 2005
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:42 am    Post subject:  
Has anyone read any of Douglas Johnson's books? He's got quite a few about phototherapy for sale on lulu.com.

They're pretty expensive, but I'm thinking of finding a way to buy this one:

http://www.lulu.com/content/165611

Quote:
Phototherapy Level I: An Introduction to Light as a Therapeutic Modality

Beginning with brief general comments regarding the use of phototherapy equipment, it presents a summary of the physics, technology, and physiological effects of light along with step-by-step instructions and illustration on how to use the equipment. Clear-cut, complete and current, this guide blends practical application with scientific rationale in the application of phototherapy as a therapeutic modality. Readers will become adept at appropriately and safely employing low level lasers and upper luminous diodes into a rehabilitation program. More than a simplistic how-to-guide, this book will challenge its readers to think critically when mapping out the best treatment options with optimal use of phototherapy.

_________________
KNOWLEDGE = POWER
fut



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:47 am    Post subject:  
I'm sorry i've been behind on this, but may I ask exactly what symptoms Red Light Therapy seeks to diminish? Is acne an issue?

Thanks for the updates.
clsykes00



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Philly
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:53 am    Post subject:  
IowaDavid wrote:
As for the quotes, it really does matter who was saying what. You've got to look at the source and use your best judgment. Sorry, I'm going to go with over a year of daily, anecdotal personal experience than the words of disingenuous posters with ulterior motives.


Seems very myopic to arbitrarily dismiss others' comments without researching who the authors were (one being your buddy) and their comments. Do you expect the people you dismiss so easily to believe you?

Your tone is very negative to a simple question. Your answer in two words, "reduced cost."

What was Dr Nase's opposition to RLT? What do you think his motivations were to refute the benefits of RLT?

Thanks,
Trey
IowaDavid



Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Location: Iowa, U.S.
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:25 am    Post subject:  
Probably because I've read nearly every post on this site regarding red light therapy and done hours upon hours of research about it.
I'm not getting into this Nase business again. You can search my posts regarding that.
Best of luck with it.

clsykes00 wrote:
IowaDavid wrote:
As for the quotes, it really does matter who was saying what. You've got to look at the source and use your best judgment. Sorry, I'm going to go with over a year of daily, anecdotal personal experience than the words of disingenuous posters with ulterior motives.


Seems very myopic to arbitrarily dismiss others' comments without researching who the authors were (one being your buddy) and their comments. Do you expect the people you dismiss so easily to believe you?

Your tone is very negative to a simple question. Your answer in two words, "reduced cost."

What was Dr Nase's opposition to RLT? What do you think his motivations were to refute the benefits of RLT?

Thanks,
Trey

_________________
28 year-old male
Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular
20 + laser treatments.
Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisture, currently not using antibiotics. Using homemade red light LED array. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next 


Technical assistance: admin email | Disclaimers
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group