Red Light Clinical Trial at Hammersmith Hospital
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:35 pm Post subject: Red Light Clinical Trial at Hammersmith Hospital | |
| Hello
I saw Tony Chu at Hammersmith hospital last week and had an interesting chat on a couple of rosacea related items. My main question for him was regarding the clinical red light trial (LED) for rosacea he was planning to start earlier this year and what was the current position. Unfortunately it hasn't started yet but he is planning to commence after the summer at Hammersmith. Pointless starting during the summer because of peoples holiday's etc. The trial should have started by now but the paperwork for ethics test had elapsed so this had to be re-applied for thus causing a delay. When the questionnaire for the ethics test turned up there were numerous questions which had previously been answered by an assistant who had since left the hospital, so again there was a further delay whilst this was completed. The good news is that this trial will happen and Tony has sufficient volunteers available who are able to travel to Hammersmith and participate. As soon as I hear any further updates or news on progress on this I will report back. Jen and Heather. I mentioned both of you to him and said I would e mail your stories over. Jen - Obviously we all knew you would not experience any problems from your LED unit but have you noticed any improvements with your skin since you started which are a direct result of the lamp ? I had previously sent him David's story plus pictures and he replied "Very impressive and certainly an incentive to continue". Thanks Peter |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: | |
| peter is LED therapy thought of as a treatment or potentially more. Can Ia sk the mechansim for action if known for the LED on the skin | |
Joined: 11 Jun 2005
| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:51 pm Post subject: | |
| Peter,
Interesting stuff mate, thanks for the heads up. I hope he makes some useful discoveries. Hell, if Im free I might even drop by for a cupper myself. BB |
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Site Admin
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Australia
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: Re: Red Light Clinical Trial at Hammersmith Hospital | |||
Hi Peter Well, perhaps it is best if I give a time line. In April I slowly started to introduce myself to the Candida Diet. As it is natural healing, it has to be done slowly. There are 4 stages to the diet and I am still on stage one, bordering stage two now. This has definitely helped with my skin. On 1st May I started using my red LED array, once each night. 3rd May I went off antibiotics. In the first few weeks I wasn't able to tell if it was making a difference. After just over a month of use, I decided to test the theory and stopped using the lights for a week. Well, I have to tell you, after a week of no red lights, I really noticed the effect the lights were having. That is, my skin felt much calmer whilst using the lights each night. I'm not saying my face flared up big time or anything during the week break but I could feel the difference. So, for me, this was a good test to do to see what the difference would be if I didn't use the lights. Also, this has helped to separate out how much the new diet was helping and how much the lights were helping. So, long story short, I do feel that using my red LED array helps to keep my skin calm and I look forward to the long term results. Jen _________________ Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment. |
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Joined: 12 Jun 2005
Location: Iowa, U.S.
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Red Light Clinical Trial at Hammersmith Hospital | |||||
If red light works as I suspect--cumulative exposure is what counts--then, you should start seeing little "breakthroughs" as you continue to use the red light. The goal, of course, is to get to where Peter is in terms of his disorder suppression. I think it took him 2 years of daily use to really contain his symptoms--I'm not sure on this, though. Keep us posted! David _________________ 28 year-old male Erythmatotelangiectatic rosacea & Ocular 20 + laser treatments. Toleraine Soothing Light Facial Fluid for moisture, currently not using antibiotics. Using homemade red light LED array. Clonidine daily; klonopin sometimes. |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: | |||
Hello Cheesy Well I think we have talked this one to death over the years regarding how we think red light is able to benefit rosacea sufferers. The main consensus of opinion is that this particular frequency of light has an anti-inflammatory effect similar to that demonstrated by an antibiotic but without the side effects associated with these drugs used systemically. If you are interested then I would advise doing a search on the archives where you will find numerous posts from David, Kristen (Banshee), myself and others detailing our own experiences. With all due respect to David and he would be the first to admit this, Kristen did her homework on red light and in her own distinctive style wrote some amazing stuff on the use of lamps etc. It would be nice to see her join this thread and give us her opinion again. We still have no actual scientific proof that red light does work but there is enough feed back now to suggest that it certainly helps some rosacea sufferers and the trial was arranged to investigate this. I have waited 8 years for the trial to actually happen and frustrating as it is I suppose waiting a bit longer isn't the end of the world. Regards Peter |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: | |||
Hello Bob No worries whenever I hear something about the trial I will post the latest. Not sure how bad your rosacea is and whether you currently see a dermatologist ? If you still have problems and as you live in the UK and if you can afford it, I would certainly recommend a visit to Tony Chu at Hammersmith Hospital. Forget about these so called rosacea experts and consultants, talk to someone with experience of dealing with all kinds of rosacea, who treats you like a human being and who cares. There is a difference. Oh and you will get a cup of Rosy Lee in the waiting room as well 
Cheers Peter |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: | |
| Hello Jen
Thanks for the update and at least people following your progress can see that you are suffering no side effects at all and it does appear to be helping albeit in a small way at the moment. Both myself and David have never said that red light therapy is a cure for rosacea but have suggested that in conjunction with other conventional treatments it can really help some people halt the progression of the condition and return the skin to near normal again. To me the main advantages of using red light is that there appear to be no side effects and it cannot do any harm, so that is a major plus point. The only thing I would say to people is that if you find you react to normal fluorescent lights then it's commonsense to avoid the tubed version that I use and try LED instead. Certainly in combination with your new diet things seem to be looking up for you which is great news. Perhaps in a few months time there will be further improvement which are more noticeable and maybe you can take some new pictures to compare with your pre-lamp ones ? Good luck Peter |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Red Light Clinical Trial at Hammersmith Hospital | |
| If red light works as I suspect--cumulative exposure is what counts--then, you should start seeing little "breakthroughs" as you continue to use the red light. The goal, of course, is to get to where Peter is in terms of his disorder suppression. I think it took him 2 years of daily use to really contain his symptoms--I'm not sure on this, though.
Keep us posted! David[/quote] Hello David Well I think you are right it is the slow cumulative effect of using red light that makes the difference. Like you I used Clonidine initially which was effective to suppresses the flushing problems I had plus I used and still use Clindamycin (DalacinT) topical lotion. Even though my skin was improving it was still not great and I was prescribed oral antibiotics but I had such an adverse reaction to these that I stopped and went against the grain by trying a red / blue acne lamp. Despite the initial rebounding from stopping Trimethoprim after a few weeks my skin started to improve and then after a several months it was obvious the lamp was helping my rosacea. Around the 5 - 6 month stage I converted my lamp to all red and felt more improvement which probably peaked around the 2 year mark. People who see me say that my skin looks normal and as I am never going to be a film star that is good enough for me. 8 years down the line I still use the lamp daily for 15 minutes and can miss days and the odd week without noticing any deterioration with my skin thus I believe that using the lamp for me now is what we would call "maintenance". In my opinion the key to successful treatment for rosacea is seeking professional advice quickly, finding something that works and sticking with it for several years. I know it's easier said than done but there are options out there and red light is just one of them. We cannot cure rosacea at the moment but it can be controlled and like you I think red light therapy can help others achieve this. One way or the other the trial results when they arrive will hopefully prove the benefits of red light. Best wishes Peter |
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Site Admin
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Australia
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: | |||
Hi Peter Yes, I will certainly post new photos in a few months time. Proof being in the pudding. Jen _________________ Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment. |
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
| Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: | |
| It's good that a treatment gared specifically torward Rosacea is in the works. Thanks for the information! | |
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:32 pm Post subject: | |||
Hey Fut You wrote about me on another thread recently "That's the only time he posts" Not actually true is it ? Thanks for the interest but I don't think we can regard red light as being geared towards a rosacea treatment yet but it definitely needs investigating further, hence the clinical trial Tony Chu is trying to get underway. From my experiences (since 1998) and the feedback we have received from others it certainly seems to help improve the rosacea skin in varying degrees and hopefully more people who try it will report back similar type results. If you want to see what can be achieved then take a look at David Christian's before and after pictures. Assuming the trial does prove it's effectiveness then we will then at least have another treatment option to add to the armoury and also be in a position to review why it does help and possibly look for more clues as to what causes rosacea in the first place. Long way off yet but the plus points are that it's natural, easy to use, drug free and has no apparent side effects. Although the initial outlay is relatively expensive, the cost spread over several years is still cheaper than most patients finish up spending on drugs and other treatments. Watch this space I suppose. Peter |
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Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Location: Philly
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:06 pm Post subject: | |
| To conduct this study properly will be a challenge in my opinion. The results of red light, from my reading, usually begin to show signs months after starting the therapy (call it 6 months which seems to be a mode of personal accounts from my readings) and peak call it in 2 years (taking Peter's estimates from his own experience). The difficulty will be two fold given the length of time for results and reaching peak results: 1) maintaining a meaninful control group that is willing to endure the pain of not experimenting with other forms of therapy, having to suffer for 6 months to 2 years while their rosacea progressions or maintains at its uncomfortable levels and 2) keeping the group using red light therapy from experimenting with other therapies (e.g. new diets that may alter someone's rosacea flushes, etc.) while using red light to ensure that red light is indeed the contributor to the results seen. As for me, I would not be patient enough to participate in either group, locking myself to one therapy over the course of a long period for the sake of scientific data. I think that is human nature in today's society. | |
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Location: Australia
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: | |
| Yes, that's a good call Trey.
I guess at this point in time, no matter what other treatments are being used in conjunction with red light therapy, the anecdotal reports are favourable. So far there are a relatively small number of Rosaceans trying red light therapy and from my reading, all have experienced some positive results. I am not sure how Tony Chu will go about this clinical trial. What I have found interesting in my documenting other Rosaceans' experience is that no matter what other treatment is being used at the same time, all have said that red light therapy has also helped. On one end of the scale we have those on long term antibiotics and/or other medications. On the other end of the scale you have those (like myself) trying diet. Since so many seem reluctant to even try a change in diet, I feel that my efforts are not only for my own personal gain but also as a "clinical trial" for all Rosaceans, without being part of an offical trial. In that, I have subjected myself to going without any mediations, in the name of scientific research and also because I feel that what I am doing is working! Well, that's my take on it. Time will tell of course. Truly though, I now know that if I don't sit under the red lights in the evening, my face feels less calm and I hanker to sit under the lights. I forced myself to go without for a week and I missed it. My face missed it! Anyway, whatever comes of the trial, however it is done, I do know that it is helping me and I would certainly recomend it for others to try. Hey, if anyone lived closer to me, I would be happy to share the use of my red LED array! To be honest, I don't know why it has to be such a whoo haaa. I mean, if someone posts about using something that is helping them, which is not directly aimed at Rosacea, nothing is said and many folk go ahead and try it. There are many, many products that have been suggested without the third degree been given. Just because I am trying it, doesn't mean everyone will. Same as the diet I am on. Proof - pudding, I suppose! Jen _________________ Currently trying: Apr 06 Bee Wilder's Candida (natural healing) Diet; May 06 Home made red LED array; Aug 06 ZZ ointment. |
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Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Location: UK
| Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:04 pm Post subject: | |||
Hello Trey With all due respect I find your post somewhat negative. We should be grateful that someone is prepared to arrange a trial which could ultimately help perhaps other rosacea sufferers who are looking for the right treatment to suit them. Like any trial I am sure it will be a challenge but I have every faith in Tony's ability to conduct something which will prove one way or the other whether or not red light is a viable treatment option and I cannot see too many differences between this and the blue / red light trial he was involved in previously which demonstrated the benefits of those light frequencies for treating acne. Actually I started to see that red light was helping me after only 3 to 4 weeks and was encouraged by Tony to carry on using the lamp. Sure I reckoned that peak healing time for me was around 2 years but that does not necessarily mean that a trial would need to take that length of time if positive results were emerging far earlier. I do not know the exact criteria and format of the trial other than he is using an LED lamp available at Hammersmith and he has the volunteers ready and waiting. At this stage I doubt if we will hear much before the end of this year but if people are interested I will post more information about the trial that I can find out about. At the end of the day the red light technology is here and readily available for anybody with rosacea to try if they so wish. I think you will agree this is a far better situation then the hyped up drugs and topical products we have been bombarded with for the last year plus, which either fail to work or just never appear. Regards Peter |
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